I just had an electric issue and couldn’t figure it out and the only thing I kept coming back to was fuzable links, and finally just wired in a fuse box and I think my issue is solved, great troubleshooting skills are a must when it comes to old trucks! Great job!
Dude I’m so glade I found this channel I watched one video and I subscribed lol I’m building my cub cab 1st gen from the frame up and you have some much little stuff that’s going to help me out big time
Thanks for documenting the frozen U-joint and showing how you diagnosed it. Brian, bcbloc02, had an observation and recommended suggestion on how to address the remaining steering issue. His channel, like yours is one of my favorites. Keep us informed.
Brian is awesome! He's a wealth of knowledge. I was at an event with him last summer and half of what he said when we were talking Cummins went right over my head 😂
13:14 Another option to avoid this whole mess is to retrofit an older model reverse rotation gearbox, not superior to crossover steering but much simpler and easier with no frame bracing required. This changes the pitman arm action from side to side to fore and aft. Much better than stock and eliminates bump steer on your first gen. I'm running this setup on my 78 crew cab with 36 inch military hummer tires and a Borgeson steering shaft.
@@decentgarage Early seventies steering box not sure what was the last year. You also need the cast iron mount that bolts to the frame and rotates the steering gear 90 degrees. They are definitely getting hard to find in wrecking yards nowadays. Also uses a different drag link.
13:08 if you watch you can see the axle shift side to side in relation to the frame. It still needs a track bar to be right. Your brace you put in the sway bar holes would probably be a good place to come off from for it.
My Ramcharger goes 90 with the far from stock cross over steering a ffs steering box a fox shock steering damper king pin delete and a drive way alignment Dana 60 4x4 axles
I rotated the knuckles on an old Scout I had. I think I went from 1/2 degree stock to about 7 degrees with 35" tires. It handle much better at highway speeds and tracks better. You could try putting some wedges under the springs to try it. Someone else mentioned pitman arm. The ratio length of pitman vs steering arm can make it more or less responsive.
Did the same on my former Scout II, cut and turn the knuckles along with pointing the pinion at the t-case. I've wondered if the Dana 60 in the First Gen would benefit from this.
@@chrisharper2326 from what internet says. 92 w250 4wd. 1/2 to 3.5. 2 preferred. I think it would benefit from more. Ive rotated dana 60 knuckles and they can a bear. Few times I ended up cutting the knuckles off and just replacing them with new or used knuckles.
Hi Tim, i responded to your question about more detail about my steering issues with the reid bronze bushngs and rubber spring eliminators, but i cant see the comment so not sure if it went through. Anyways, i fixed it by going back to springs and the white marshmellow bushings. I originally used the spring eliminators and the bronze bushings and put two shims in there, but i think it could probably also be fixed with using the reid bronze bushings and spring eliminators by checking preload properly (i think you take tie rod off, and move knuckle side to side, and should have some resistance but should be able to move it by hand), then if it is too tight or too loose, take out or put in washer shim with the spring eliminator. also gotta make sure to really pressurize the chamber real good with grease, and to make sure any washers have sufficient holes for grease to go through. my symptoms were crazy tracking, felt like black ice, couldnt keep it straight down the road at 20mph, would swerve and any correction led to overcorrection, was real nasty. thanks tons for the content man i appreciate it tons you are the man!!
I have the same issue and also found the cv frozen, this wil only make a problem when the hubs are locked thou...but i suspect my leaf spring bushings are the problem as i have poly bushing! Maybe the axle is able to shift sideways a little bit and then "autosteer"...i have found this problem most in heavy cornering and low speed
Makes sense, in your Go Pro driving footage you see your front axle shafts turning slowly when going down the road. It sounded like a binding issue to me and you found out what it was! Good work finding out what it was. Im sure this is a very common issue with all 4x4 first gens being that all our trucks are 30+ years old. Thank you for diving deep and doing all the research.
Thanks a bunch for this and the last video bro! Having the same issue with my 1st gen. Gunna check the axel ujoints tomorrow morning. Good info in both videos as always!
I bought a new Ram W-150.. shift on the fly crap. With the axles always spinning when the u joint sh!ts the bed it will steer you into the ditch or traffic. The locking versions you only get it slightly and not all the time cause the axles aren't spinning unless locked. Just once in while they get spun in that one direction and don't want to and they fight back. And it gets worse with time.
That DTR thread brings back some memories! As noted there I had some seriously scary driving situations thinking I was going to wreck on the freeway hoping I didn't take out someone else. Then it would drive fine like nothing happened. I would like to crossover mine but with less lift and I need the sway bar. Thanks for sticking with it and a great video. Take care, the "brick"
I’m surprised no one has commented about your steering box. I highly recommend a red head steering box I just did far from stock crossover steering on my 93 and I went with a red head steering box and a Borgeson steering shaft with rag joint delete and the steering is brand new vehicle tight absolutely no play no dead spots. Go with a RED HEAD you won’t believe the difference my man
I had a similar issue when I did crossover steering in my 91 suburban, I was getting side flex in my front springs because the crossover side loads the springs in its attempt to steer the truck. I was running 35" tyres and a 12v Cummins swap so obviously the steering was seeing extra load. I've braced the steering gear area and beefed up the front cross member, made some proper rigid spring shackles that do not fold side to side like others, have poly bushed complete front end, the Dana 60 was rebuilt by myself and still had garbage steering and like you I was wondering what all the hype was with crossover. In the end I made a panhard rod to control side movement if the axle and it totally fixed it, it was like night and day. So just take a look down the springs while a buddy turns the steering for you, it's surprising how much they move side to side whilst trying to steer the wheels.
If you’re using a “dodge” pitman arm, it is shorter and made for the push pull steering. I did crossover on an 89 dodge and used a 70’s ford dropped pitman arm. They are longer and give better ratio with crossover steering. Fourwheeler magazine did a write up back in the day and listed all the parts needed for putting crossover on a dodge. They used a ford pitman arm. Look at the pivot point to where the drag link mounts and you can see the length difference from the stock steering arm on the knuckle to a crossover arm.
My current suspension/ steering setup is: Borgeson High flow power steering pump, Far From Stock Hydroboost kit, Borgeson steering shaft, Far From Stock steering box brace, RedHead steering box, Northwest Fabrication Crossover steering kit, Rough country steering shock stabilizer, Crane Axle kingpin spring eliminator kit, Alcan custom leaf packs, bilstein 5100/4600 shocks and let me tell you my rear end hops like no other when slowing down and my steering wheel still has a foot of slop in it.
if anyone else has a mystery steering issue and cant find an answer online, mine felt like i was driving on black ice it would overcorrect and swerve kinda like tim describing. it was my reid bronze kingpin bushings locking up. i had a shim in there which i probably didnt need and probably didnt pressurize them with grease enough.
@@decentgarage yo Tim!! Yes i had the issue with reid bronze bushings and the rubber spring eliminators, and had 2 washer shims in there. I did not measure preload i dont think cuz i did not want to take the tie rod off (been a while but if i remember correctly). i fixed it by switching back to springs and the white plastic bushings. I think the issue could also be solved while keeping the reid bushings and rubber spring eliminators, by measuring the preload (moving the knuckle side to side with no tie rod and should have slight resistance i think but not much?) to determine how many if any washers, and make sure the washers have ample holes in them to allow grease to get through, and to really ensure that you pressurize and fill those chambers with grease really really good. it was a pain to figure this one out because i dont think it was mentioned on forums at least that i could find, and the problems were not immediately present after the install. but the switch back to springs and white bushings solved everything. my symptoms were crazy tracking i would steer one way then it would feel like black ice going that way then i would correct and it would feel like black ice, i coudnt keep it straight at all on the road going 20mph. i know you said you dont have any cracks in your frame behind the steering box, but for anyone else, i have had cracks there that are almost impossible to see, unless you slap some new paint on there and steer it back n forth so the fresh paint cracks along the crack, or if you have someone turn the wheel while you are under there and you may see movement that way. mine were invisible otherwise.
Persistence, nice job. Half way through i thought for sure lack of track bar, i cant remember if you put one in or not. But with the crossover, the leaf springs dont locate side to side real well. That steering is always trying to shift the axle side to side under the truck. But looks like you found the issue. Nice work
huh explains why my 80 flops side to side down the road. I mean im running 33s on 15 inch rims so i know thats part of it but i know my ujoints are bad and probably my bearings as i havent even checked them but ive got no play in the ball joints or tie rods and i havent taken the time to look into that issue but makes total sense.
at 15 minutes or so, I have to think there is some Toe Out that is aggravating your situation. then later you mention the U-joints in the front axle. my -02 4wd Excursion had a U-Joint that was locking up when turning, replaced it, and all is well.
I went high steer/ over the leaf springs with my steering have the ffs box brace new shackle bushings braced the shackles and having this same issue ill take a look into the joint. Best way I could describe it is getting hit with a gust of wind at random going down the road
That is the perfect description. I don't know if you watched my road trip video to texas a few videos back but I literally chalked it up to being the wind.
Good stuff! I can see how a bad u joint would affect steering even when unlocked because the ujoint still has move a little when the knuckle turns, so if it has a sitcky spot it could cause some binding. Great video, Keep it up!
I know with the older Mopars, the boxes were loose, tightening the lash on top of the box, like 1/8th turn might help. Don't want to go a lot because the box could bind up
![We Bought 4 Land Rover Defenders in Africa... #Landy4x4x4 🇿🇦[EP1]](/img/1.gif)
I just had an electric issue and couldn’t figure it out and the only thing I kept coming back to was fuzable links, and finally just wired in a fuse box and I think my issue is solved, great troubleshooting skills are a must when it comes to old trucks! Great job!
Dude I’m so glade I found this channel I watched one video and I subscribed lol I’m building my cub cab 1st gen from the frame up and you have some much little stuff that’s going to help me out big time
Thanks for documenting the frozen U-joint and showing how you diagnosed it. Brian, bcbloc02, had an observation and recommended suggestion on how to address the remaining steering issue. His channel, like yours is one of my favorites. Keep us informed.
Brian is awesome! He's a wealth of knowledge. I was at an event with him last summer and half of what he said when we were talking Cummins went right over my head 😂
13:14 Another option to avoid this whole mess is to retrofit an older model reverse rotation gearbox, not superior to crossover steering but much simpler and easier with no frame bracing required. This changes the pitman arm action from side to side to fore and aft. Much better than stock and eliminates bump steer on your first gen. I'm running this setup on my 78 crew cab with 36 inch military hummer tires and a Borgeson steering shaft.
Interesting. Where do you source these from? I'd never heard of that and now I want to research it
@@decentgarage Early seventies steering box not sure what was the last year. You also need the cast iron mount that bolts to the frame and rotates the steering gear 90 degrees. They are definitely getting hard to find in wrecking yards nowadays. Also uses a different drag link.
13:08 if you watch you can see the axle shift side to side in relation to the frame. It still needs a track bar to be right. Your brace you put in the sway bar holes would probably be a good place to come off from for it.
Watch it in 2x speed and it is more obvious.
Amazing video as always brotha 💯
Try lock tightening and torquing the gear box as bolts rattle louse
My Ramcharger goes 90 with the far from stock cross over steering a ffs steering box a fox shock steering damper king pin delete and a drive way alignment Dana 60 4x4 axles
Love your truck.. they are getting hard to find even in crappy shape
I rotated the knuckles on an old Scout I had. I think I went from 1/2 degree stock to about 7 degrees with 35" tires. It handle much better at highway speeds and tracks better. You could try putting some wedges under the springs to try it. Someone else mentioned pitman arm. The ratio length of pitman vs steering arm can make it more or less responsive.
Did the same on my former Scout II, cut and turn the knuckles along with pointing the pinion at the t-case. I've wondered if the Dana 60 in the First Gen would benefit from this.
@@chrisharper2326 from what internet says. 92 w250 4wd. 1/2 to 3.5. 2 preferred. I think it would benefit from more. Ive rotated dana 60 knuckles and they can a bear. Few times I ended up cutting the knuckles off and just replacing them with new or used knuckles.
Hi Tim, i responded to your question about more detail about my steering issues with the reid bronze bushngs and rubber spring eliminators, but i cant see the comment so not sure if it went through. Anyways, i fixed it by going back to springs and the white marshmellow bushings. I originally used the spring eliminators and the bronze bushings and put two shims in there, but i think it could probably also be fixed with using the reid bronze bushings and spring eliminators by checking preload properly (i think you take tie rod off, and move knuckle side to side, and should have some resistance but should be able to move it by hand), then if it is too tight or too loose, take out or put in washer shim with the spring eliminator. also gotta make sure to really pressurize the chamber real good with grease, and to make sure any washers have sufficient holes for grease to go through. my symptoms were crazy tracking, felt like black ice, couldnt keep it straight down the road at 20mph, would swerve and any correction led to overcorrection, was real nasty. thanks tons for the content man i appreciate it tons you are the man!!
I have the same issue and also found the cv frozen, this wil only make a problem when the hubs are locked thou...but i suspect my leaf spring bushings are the problem as i have poly bushing! Maybe the axle is able to shift sideways a little bit and then "autosteer"...i have found this problem most in heavy cornering and low speed
What’s the spicer ujoint number?
Spicer SPL55-3X
Tim, if you need to bend anything like that drag link again, bring it by my shop! I've got a heavy duty 30 ton pneumatic press. i'd be happy to help
Deal!
Dang way to stick with it. What a struggle! Good info
Especially when I hit bumps
Is there a video for the interior of long bed lary?
Yeah, I think there are close to 30 videos on the long bed Larry playlist.
I daily my 1st gen and it’s always a struggle on the highway to stay in lanes
Makes sense, in your Go Pro driving footage you see your front axle shafts turning slowly when going down the road. It sounded like a binding issue to me and you found out what it was! Good work finding out what it was. Im sure this is a very common issue with all 4x4 first gens being that all our trucks are 30+ years old. Thank you for diving deep and doing all the research.
Props to DTR -- the OG first gen resource.
Absolutely! Still such a great resource.
Even with the hubs unlocked the steering still will have to find the ujoint for turning causing a bind. Makes total sense!!!!
Yes I does now!
Thank-you again for a great video! Definitely helps me out with this same setup what to fix!
Thanks a bunch for this and the last video bro! Having the same issue with my 1st gen. Gunna check the axel ujoints tomorrow morning. Good info in both videos as always!
I bought a new Ram W-150.. shift on the fly crap. With the axles always spinning when the u joint sh!ts the bed it will steer you into the ditch or traffic. The locking versions you only get it slightly and not all the time cause the axles aren't spinning unless locked. Just once in while they get spun in that one direction and don't want to and they fight back. And it gets worse with time.
Wow I love your persistence !!!
That DTR thread brings back some memories! As noted there I had some seriously scary driving situations thinking I was going to wreck on the freeway hoping I didn't take out someone else. Then it would drive fine like nothing happened. I would like to crossover mine but with less lift and I need the sway bar. Thanks for sticking with it and a great video.
Take care,
the "brick"
Glad you got it figured out. Really glad you replaced the draglink. These old trucks with high mileage components can drive a guy to drink.
I'm not that far gone yet! haha
U need a steering dampner
I’m surprised no one has commented about your steering box. I highly recommend a red head steering box I just did far from stock crossover steering on my 93 and I went with a red head steering box and a Borgeson steering shaft with rag joint delete and the steering is brand new vehicle tight absolutely no play no dead spots. Go with a RED HEAD you won’t believe the difference my man
I Agree with you
I agree 👍
I had a similar issue when I did crossover steering in my 91 suburban, I was getting side flex in my front springs because the crossover side loads the springs in its attempt to steer the truck. I was running 35" tyres and a 12v Cummins swap so obviously the steering was seeing extra load. I've braced the steering gear area and beefed up the front cross member, made some proper rigid spring shackles that do not fold side to side like others, have poly bushed complete front end, the Dana 60 was rebuilt by myself and still had garbage steering and like you I was wondering what all the hype was with crossover. In the end I made a panhard rod to control side movement if the axle and it totally fixed it, it was like night and day. So just take a look down the springs while a buddy turns the steering for you, it's surprising how much they move side to side whilst trying to steer the wheels.
If you’re using a “dodge” pitman arm, it is shorter and made for the push pull steering. I did crossover on an 89 dodge and used a 70’s ford dropped pitman arm. They are longer and give better ratio with crossover steering. Fourwheeler magazine did a write up back in the day and listed all the parts needed for putting crossover on a dodge. They used a ford pitman arm. Look at the pivot point to where the drag link mounts and you can see the length difference from the stock steering arm on the knuckle to a crossover arm.
Any ford Dentside pitman arm?
Hola amigo cómo estás saludos acá de Austin Texas Freddy Delgado saludos y bendiciones amigo
"This is the First Gen life" 😅
LOL, it's true!
I will add..always clean the axle tubes so you don't drag dirt through the inner seal and tear it up.
My current suspension/ steering setup is: Borgeson High flow power steering pump, Far From Stock Hydroboost kit, Borgeson steering shaft, Far From Stock steering box brace, RedHead steering box, Northwest Fabrication Crossover steering kit, Rough country steering shock stabilizer, Crane Axle kingpin spring eliminator kit, Alcan custom leaf packs, bilstein 5100/4600 shocks and let me tell you my rear end hops like no other when slowing down and my steering wheel still has a foot of slop in it.
There has to be a variable that someone is missing on these. Mine is 95% better but still not as tight as I want it to be.
havent watched since i sold my 91 in summer of 2022. thought id pop in and be reminded why i sold it.. jk lol tbh i miss it, nice truck man.
if anyone else has a mystery steering issue and cant find an answer online, mine felt like i was driving on black ice it would overcorrect and swerve kinda like tim describing. it was my reid bronze kingpin bushings locking up. i had a shim in there which i probably didnt need and probably didnt pressurize them with grease enough.
Hey, can you describe what the solution was in a little more detail? I have bronze bushings too and wonder if I need to address that too
@@decentgarage yo Tim!! Yes i had the issue with reid bronze bushings and the rubber spring eliminators, and had 2 washer shims in there. I did not measure preload i dont think cuz i did not want to take the tie rod off (been a while but if i remember correctly). i fixed it by switching back to springs and the white plastic bushings. I think the issue could also be solved while keeping the reid bushings and rubber spring eliminators, by measuring the preload (moving the knuckle side to side with no tie rod and should have slight resistance i think but not much?) to determine how many if any washers, and make sure the washers have ample holes in them to allow grease to get through, and to really ensure that you pressurize and fill those chambers with grease really really good. it was a pain to figure this one out because i dont think it was mentioned on forums at least that i could find, and the problems were not immediately present after the install. but the switch back to springs and white bushings solved everything. my symptoms were crazy tracking i would steer one way then it would feel like black ice going that way then i would correct and it would feel like black ice, i coudnt keep it straight at all on the road going 20mph. i know you said you dont have any cracks in your frame behind the steering box, but for anyone else, i have had cracks there that are almost impossible to see, unless you slap some new paint on there and steer it back n forth so the fresh paint cracks along the crack, or if you have someone turn the wheel while you are under there and you may see movement that way. mine were invisible otherwise.
Good job Tim 👍🏻
Persistence, nice job. Half way through i thought for sure lack of track bar, i cant remember if you put one in or not. But with the crossover, the leaf springs dont locate side to side real well. That steering is always trying to shift the axle side to side under the truck. But looks like you found the issue. Nice work
your smart
Thank you! haha
wow im suprised that drag link isnt hitting the crossmember. i put a FFS (under 2" of lift) crossover kit on mine and i really dont like it.
Great idea adding that small crossmember back at the sway bar holes, totally copying you on that one!
Go for it!
This is a good example of why I love and hate forums. LOL
huh explains why my 80 flops side to side down the road. I mean im running 33s on 15 inch rims so i know thats part of it but i know my ujoints are bad and probably my bearings as i havent even checked them but ive got no play in the ball joints or tie rods and i havent taken the time to look into that issue but makes total sense.
at 15 minutes or so, I have to think there is some Toe Out that is aggravating your situation.
then later you mention the U-joints in the front axle.
my -02 4wd Excursion had a U-Joint that was locking up when turning, replaced it, and all is well.
Well done.
I went high steer/ over the leaf springs with my steering have the ffs box brace new shackle bushings braced the shackles and having this same issue ill take a look into the joint. Best way I could describe it is getting hit with a gust of wind at random going down the road
That is the perfect description. I don't know if you watched my road trip video to texas a few videos back but I literally chalked it up to being the wind.
Good stuff! I can see how a bad u joint would affect steering even when unlocked because the ujoint still has move a little when the knuckle turns, so if it has a sitcky spot it could cause some binding. Great video, Keep it up!
FIY
I had tires that caused that problem !
A steering stabilizer would help out a lot.
I know with the older Mopars, the boxes were loose, tightening the lash on top of the box, like 1/8th turn might help. Don't want to go a lot because the box could bind up